On fae/faer pronouns and cultural appropriation: https://gendercensus.tumblr.com/post/643657043304153088/on-faefaer-pronouns-and-cultural-appropriation
I'm not really "pagan" because I reject most pre-set belief, but I have to admit that my "personally crafted spirituality" is very influenced by paganism, so still felt legitimate to answer (no strong feelings/other)
I personnaly don't mind. But I can see how some people would be offended by people using fae/faer just for "fun" or because it's "cool" without any "legitimate" meaning behind it. But then, I don't wanna be policing people spirituality either...
@gendercensus I don't see the need for gatekeeping here. Let people enjoy themselves, why yuck their yum?
@shivian Just to clarify - is that your view as a pagan/Celtic person re: the fae/faer pronouns, or is that your view about me running these polls?
@gendercensus my view as a neopagan (of over 20 years)
@shivian Cool, thank you for your opinion and your clarification! :)
@gendercensus thanks for asking, BTW 💖
I had no reason to connect the two until this poll. I always saw it in a more nonhuman/otherkin context, not a pagan one.
(- as a non Celtic pagan)
@gendercensus I'm "more pagan than anything else" wrt: religion/spirituality/woo, have been for literally over thirty years, and I think it's pretty awesome, actually. I've usually seen it used as an otherkin signifier, enough so that I've been tempted to use "drak/drake" as a pronoun set (for being dragon-gender).
and... I'm arguably of Celtic decent? I've been told that a majority of my white ancestors who came to the US did so from the UK area, but 1. I don't know how much of that is true 2. I don't know any specifics 3. that's only some of my ancestors, most of the rest are unaccounted for 4. I have no stake in Celtic identity/culture whatsoever, so I picked "Not Celtic, show results" for that poll.
@troodon Ahh yeah, most of the people in the UK are English and so not Celtic, you'd need more info to know for sure! Anyway, yes, thanks for the extra information and clarification, very cool. :)
@troodon @gendercensus Paganish, from the UK, probably not of Celtic extraction (Anglo/Polish)? But yeah, I've seen it crop up pretty much exclusively with otherkin and people who feel that a fae or faerie image fits their gender.
(I think it would be apropos to note that the word "faerie/fairy" has been a synonym for various queer identities for decades, too. The Radical Faeries are a good example.)
Also drak/drake pronouns are good
@gendercensus Interesting. I get the concern about fae curses, though I personally feel like otherkin people should be able to use the pronouns.
I'm "ugh" about qualifying it as "cultural appropriation" though. It's certainly isn't the same stakes as for PoC, but I wouldn't know what to call it.
To me it sounds like indeed some people on tiktok made some discourse that wasn't questioned by some (mostly) young people.
@gendercensus Oh and I'm talking from an eclectic pagan non celtic viewpoint.
@gendercensus (Celtic is a bit blurry though, where I come from we definitely have fae legends (Melusine) and it was historically celtic, but we don't speak a celtic language, if that's what matters)
@gendercensus I was under the impression fae/faer had a lot more to do with faegender, which is a type of nonbinary that encompasses a lot of things but never male, than actual fae
...if it had more to do with actual fae and not a specific, feminine nonbinary identity I'd be using it in a heartbeat, but
@gendercensus I am of Celtic descent but don't identify with that heritage. So not voting -- but 'fay' and 'fairy' actually came from French. They are an aspect of Normans colonizing the British Isles/Northern Celts and replacing native words.
For whatever my opinion is worth, I think that's relevant to this question.
@jessmahler Ah, the reason I ran a poll specifically aimed at Celtic people is because I've had a couple of comments in the feedback box saying fae/faer is appropriative, and one of them said that it's Celtic people who are entitled to use it! So I was checking what actual Celtic people say.
(Which group/nationality do you think I should target with a similar poll, to find out what that group thinks about appropriation and fae/faer pronouns?)
I'd have started with Celtic also. The history doesn't change the fact that in pop culture those terms are largely associated w/ Celtic mythologies, and if Celtic people had/have integrated them into the culture, that should still be respected.
Was mainly sharing as a 'Celtic people may not care about fae because of this history.'
If Celtic folks don't care, I'd try British or French to be safe. British culture developed a fairly strong anglo/norman mix.
@gendercensus I’m of Irish descent and pagan; I don’t care in the slightest.
In general I’m not terribly concerned with appropriation of Celtic beliefs - it’s a very different cultural situation than appropriation of Indigenous American beliefs, although I still hate negative stereotyping, e.g. my old boss who told me Irish people like me were destined to be alchies - but “fae” is an English word that refers to a pretty broad cultural concept not just found in the Celtic regions.
@gendercensus (well, Pagan - sort of. My religious beliefs are complicated, but I exist somewhere in the broad space of “Quakers from the nature religions”, as an elderly woman once put it to me!)
@mdmarron Oh that's a lovely description. :D Thanks for clarifying your views!
@gendercensus I just wanted to say that I appreciate the option to look at the results even if I'm not part of that group.
@Superfreq Oh thanks for saying so, I'm glad it helped!
We are a Mastodon instance for LGBT+ and allies! ☺