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Web browsers are the worst software on my computer and somehow we've decided they should be the only software

Who knew this would attract techie takes.

Is it not a truth, universally acknowledged that a person with a computer must be in want of a browser?

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A web browser is an ftp client with pretensions. Change my mind.

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I've always secretly wanted to be a public intellectual, so it's bringing me great joy that so many care about my opinions about web browsers.

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To be fair, the worst software on my computer is Microsoft Teams, but web browsers still frequently causes system crashes, probably due to memory leaks.

If I open a facebook tab, I know that a reboot will follow within a few hours at most. I put up barriers, trying to disable tracking and protect my privacy and it struggles to get around them. Maybe it's not the fault of firefox that the web is broken - that the entire model is predatory capitalism, that I'm turned into a product for corporations and the far right populism that they enable and encourage as they struggle to impose techno feudalism upon us.

Is this the fault of browsers? Yes and no. If facebook was a standalone app, it would be obviously malware. But it's in a browser, which tries to everything competently and does virtually nothing well. It gets access to far more information that it should.

I had always assumed the fediverse was in broad agreement on this, but now I'm not so sure. There are ways in which this platform is part of the problem. Mastodon is inoperable in lynx.

We've built tremendous amount of infrastructure we rely on upon a broken foundation. We live in cities made of balsawood.

And people ~love~ this. They will argue until they turn blue that this is the way things should be. Privacy is for losers. Everything ~should~ be in browsers. Apps that do a few things well are bad.

And I say: What the fuck dude

What even is this thread

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@celesteh your entitled to your opinion but it's entirely unsubstantiated & i don't get it at all. the browser is a miracle of technology, allowing us to visit endless diverse programs all over the internet. nothing comes close to the magic with which the browser connects us.

@jauntywunderkind420 @celesteh that's like praising a cracked, leaky, decrepit window because the view outside is spectacular.

@walruslifestyle @celesteh see the thing is, there's a lot of cheap throwing piss around. no one in the negative camp says a single damned thing. they show zero appreciation, zero respect, just whining whining whining as broadly as they can.

it's absolutely useless, just emotionally manipulative complaint without cause, that can never possibly be addressed or improved.

and this poison is spread about the most important, most connective piece of technology on the planet. is there any other thing any of you can cite that shows even the most remotely comparative ability to let people publish stuff online, to let others find & connect & read? css isn't elegant but it usually works. html is fine. js has many problems but we continue to work & improve.

so tired of the hollow shallow & most of all VAGUE complaining.

THE WEB IS AMAZING. BROWSERS ARE FANTASTIC.

@jauntywunderkind420 here's my problem with most web browsers: I haven't been able to build them from source. I know, totally elitist and atypical to have the want and knowhow to do this, but it's important to me nevertheless. Chromium and Firefox have the craziest build systems and that infrastructure just isn't suitable for the kind of work I do. It's also a symptom of an unsustainable complexity. And again, these kinds of unsustainable complexities are just not suitable for the sorts of things I do with computers.

I've built plenty of complicated pieces of software from source before. Kernels, compilers, etc. But Modern Web Browsers? Nope. Couldn't figure it out.

Things like NetSurf and links? Sure. They build great. I love these kinds of projects! If the Web actually worked well on those browsers, I'd be happy. But it doesn't. Some communities try their best to make websites that work well with these small browsers. But their solution basically boils down to "close your eyes and pretend it is 1998". Which sounds cool if you were born before a certain year, but is also kinda depressing.

@walruslifestyle @celesteh

@celesteh then i feel like we should expect you have something cogent to offer!!!

@jauntywunderkind420 please accept a PayPal refund to reflect your disappointment in my posts.

@celesteh it just seems like you're close to having something genuine & real to say, but you piss it away with hate & argument-free emotion, and it's just really sad. i just really want you to say something, say anything, that means anything.

obviously @celesteh , you're not allowed to express an opinion on the internet unless you also provide all the relevant context, examples or counterexamples, enumerate your sources, and be sure to give thanks and praise to Our Father Of The Web, Brendan Eich @jauntywunderkind420

@balrogboogie @celesteh obviously fake, let the hate disdain & bloodletting flow!!! 100% angsty posting all the time!!!

@balrogboogie @celesteh maybe a CW before purely emotive, unsubstantial, shallow anger posting?? is that an ok compromise?

@jauntywunderkind420 @celesteh dude, give it a rest. You're kind of just slamming people for their opinion just because it's different than yours. If they think browsers are broken, that's their right. You don't have to agree, but please at least respect that it's their opinion.

@waweic @jauntywunderkind420 @celesteh "Project Gemini was originally started by Solderpunk <solderpunk _at_ posteo _dot_ net>, who remains the "Benevolent Dictator" of the project"

no thank you. i will never again throw my time and energy into a project that has a "benevolent dictator".

@walruslifestyle @jauntywunderkind420 @celesteh Wow. Did you even look into it a single bit? (I know you didn't because if you did, you would know why it doesn't matter)

@waweic @jauntywunderkind420 @celesteh i literally lifted that quote from the FAQ on the project page, which I've read several times before and once again before tooting at you.

whether or not i choose to take an interest in a technology is my own choice. you can fuck right off with your attack in response.

@walruslifestyle @jauntywunderkind420 @celesteh Oh, how interesting, I am the one attacking you here? I know that you have taken that quote from the "project page" if you will call it that, because I have read it myself (obviously).

Are you aware that Gemini is basically only a (very, very simple) specification for a protocol? It's so simple and nonextensible that you really don't need any form of governance for the specifiaction

@celesteh I suspect there's causality here. They're the worst software precisely because everyone adds to them to the exclusion of all else.

@celesteh I wouldn’t ever call Firefox the worst software on my computer, I cannot quite follow your first half. It’s annoying that you have to do nearly everything inside a browser and under strict constraints of web services but this isn’t the browser’s fault.

@celesteh You’ve said your browser is the worst software on your computer. Take Firefox for any browser. Not the same as not your favourite one.

@frumble Firefox crashes my computer fairly often but I'll agree its not as bad as Vivaldi, which is my other browser.

@celesteh Consider myself a power user and I don’t have this problem with neither of them, even using cutting edge WebRender. Maybe it’s just your graphics driver.

@frumble @celesteh i read the op in more of a "mourn what it was, hate what it has become" sort of way

@celesteh Retooting because fuck Teams and fuck Failbook.

@MahuTherapist I hate teams. I hate zoom. I like JitsiMeet, but I hate Chrome.

.... I used to like computers..... but what have they become?

@celesteh They became what's best for the business, for the corporation.

Agreed with the Chrome statement, I use chromium based browsers, admittedly not much better when one said one is Brave Browser, but its the attempt at trying something different.

Zoom is trash that must burn, and I will be happy when my office destroys it.

@MahuTherapist

I use firefox for most web apps and vivaldi for ones that need chrome like webrtc or (lolsob) mozilla hubs.

.... Mozilla hubs is actually a good idea but jesus, it should have it's own client.

@celesteh Vivaldi is one I use for my day job's stuff.

I am a bit, over-organized in my approach lol. I have four chromium browsers I use, each for different things, being my two jobs, then my personal stuff, and then a last one for social media (Mastodon, Diaspora, Plume, and Discord)

@MahuTherapist haha. I use Vivaldi for work and then worry I am setting a bad example for students, but I don't want whatever dodgy rubbish is happening with my Firefox creating moral hazards or whatever.

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